Re: Dr. Moore Responds
From: kann (stew@cowtown.net)
Thu Jan 9 18:23:42 2003
Dr. Moore,
Again I thank you for taking the time to address this board. I wish more
doctors would
be as concerned about the patient, new products, etc. Thank you for the
acknowledgement
that adhesions are also a frustration for the doctor! I do agree with you
what works for one
person may not work for another. Let me add that you are an exception to the
rule for a doctor
to acknowledge herbal (alternative medicine) treatments (if they work). I
had several doctors
that got very angry at me for "treating" my daughter with herbs instead of
prednisone. One doctor in particular screamed at me and told me, "take her
to your witch doctors then" after finding out she had been off the
prednisone for 7 months. He had NO intention of EVER taking her off
prednisone and every time we went to see him for pain, we always received
the same answer, "Up your prednisone".......better? "down your prednisone"..
........no concern for her welfare or the prednisone destroying her bones
and organs. This man was head of gastroenterology in a very large city. That
same day he told us, "I will not be your doctor if you refuse my advice". So
that was the end of our experiences with him. He is the same one that I
argued the Crohn's diagnosis with for months on end.
It seems to me that you acknowledge the patient has enough sense to play an
active role in their health. I appreciate doctors that do not believe that X
Y,Z fixes everything for each patient. Please continue to be an active voice
on this board. It is exciting to me to read your
input. I like food for thought. We don't need to put adhesions in a box and
think a trip to Germany will be the cure all. I am thankful that is an
alternative to consider, however, we need to also listen to doctors here
that ARE interested in women suffering from adhesions.
Thanks for the website you recommended. After all I have been through with
my daughter, I have learned that research, research, research, talking to
other women, doctors, etc. is the route to take. You must be informed, and
then make your OWN decision concerning your health.
Thnaks again,
Karen
-------Original Message-------
From: adhesions@adhesions.org
Date: Thursday, January 09, 2003 04:09:06 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ADHESIONS
Subject: Dr. Moore Responds
Some pretty harsh responses from this board. I suspected that would be
a likely response. I have had a lot of experience with adhesions and it
is a very frustrating problem. And I have done a lot of surgery to
remove adhesions (in fact I did a laparoscopic lysis of adhesions
today), with mixed results.
--
To dispel a few incorrect statements-
1) I am only 33, so my knowledge is not outdated. I finished residency
in 1999.
2) Never did I say "Go home and deal with it" although this may be
better advice than that given by some of the people on this website. You
see the problem with "I did this and now I'm better" advice (called
anecdotal evidence in medical terms) is that it just isn't valid.
A real scientific experiment involves a placebo arm, where patients are
given similar treatment but without the "magical" cure or medicine.
Because as all of you know some people don't form adhesions- this means
that sometimes "nothing" works to prevent adhesions. And that's where
barriers like Intercede (and probably this Spraygel) failed.
I always tell my patients that if a treatment is not proven to work, but
works for them (eg herbal supplements) they should do it. As long as it
is not super expensive (eg flying to Germany and paying out of pocket
for surgery) and isn't harmful (like surgery can be). Dr. K should
remember the first rule of medicine, Primum non nocere- first do no
harm. And if his treatment works, then prove it. It's quite simple to
prove medical therapies work, I would love to start using his techniques
tomorrow if they worked.
Finally, do your own research. THE PLACE for researching medical
literature is PUBMED. Here is the website, search for your self- the
website gives you abstracts (short summaries of the experiments/clinical
trials) and the original source so you can go to the library and look at
the original articles. Here is the website:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi
Oh, one last point- The "you don't know what we're going through"
argument also doesn't work in medicine. I don't know Dr. K's story,
but I doubt he has pelvic adhesive disease. And I assure you that to be
a good cardiologist you don't have to have a heart attack and to be a
good neurosurgeon you don't have to have a brain tumor.
At Wed, 8 Jan 2003, Koolinsask@aol.com wrote:
>
>Dear Dr.Moore, yes, I would have to agree with Sally, the sad part is, you
>nor any doctor out there, can relate to what pain we go through, the daily
>struggles, the depression, some of us are unable to work any longer, many
of
>us are very young, with very young children, just beginning our lives!!!!!
>Only to be stripped of a "normal life". Too many doctor's tell us to go
home,
>suffer, sorry there is nothing we can do! This attitude has got to stop, we
>need help, and we for so long have relied on our caregiver's to educate
>themselves, to help us......well, it hasn't happened, we have come together
>here on this forum, to help one another, to give support, to FIND help...if
>that means spending money, money in which, is nothing when it comes to one
s
>health, then so be it!!!!!! I would also advise yourself, and hundreds of
>other's out there, to please consider, researching, and try to understand
>what it is that each and everyone of us is going through, it's an utter
>nitemare!!!!! Please, i am not trying in anyway shape or form, to discredit
>anyone doctor out there, but rather, pleading with you , to learn more, and
>instead of telling us to go home, tell us, you are trying, you are
>researching, and that you CARE, AND UNDERSTAND!!!!! We are all human, just
>like your' wife, your' daughter, son , husband, mother , father etc......we
>want to live, we want to see our children grow up, we want to take care of
>our children, and get through our day's , just like you do!!!!!!!!!!! Thank
>you for at least dropping in, and maybe reading through some of our stories
>that is a very nice first step....please, come back, and inform us, of any
>new happenings that you may find out there!!!!!!
>
>Cherryl
.