Re: Has it ever turned out NOT to be adhesions?

From: Linda (lindahalford@comcast.net)
Fri Mar 6 19:04:25 2009


Who is your doctor and where is he located? If the doctors had the Cine MRI, they could see if the adhesions were gone after surgery. Did the doctor in Germany go back in with a laparoscope to see if the adhesions reformed after surgery? It seems the only way one knows if the surgery is successful is if they don't have pain any longer but then I'm hearing adhesions can return after months or years....I don't understand. I thought adhesions reform within a few weeks. If this is the case, how could they form after months or years?????

Sometimes I wonder if doctors really know anything for certain about these monstrous adhesions!

> ----- Original Message -----
From: Marlene Wheeler To: Multiple recipients of list ADHESIONS Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 12:47 AM Subject: RE: Has it ever turned out NOT to be adhesions?

My doc will give you a pretty good Idea. He's had good success, but now 100%.......... I doubt any doc can get 100% unless it's somewhat temporary. Maybe with the new barriers that aren't approved here yet the odds are better. Marlene

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 23:21:12 -0600

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------  From: lindahalford@comcast.net
  To: adhesions@mail.obgyn.net
  Subject: Re: Has it ever turned out NOT to be adhesions?

I've had two laparoscopic adhesiolysis without the use of any barrier and the adhesions returned with a vengeance. A doctor could only measure the success if the patient reports back they are pain free. If they used the Cine MRI, they could see for themself but for some reason the U.S. doesn't use this test. I thought the U.S. was the most advanced country in the world but I'm learning Germany and the U.K. is ahead of us.

> ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark in Seattle To: Multiple recipients of list ADHESIONS Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 3:26 AM Subject: Re: Has it ever turned out NOT to be adhesions?

At Tue, 3 Mar 2009, Linda wrote: > >Does anyone know the statistics of successful adhesion surgeries by any of the doctor(s) performing them? If not, where could one locate these figures?

Mark in Seattle writes:

Except for the SCAR studies, successes are anecdotally reported first by patients, and second by doctors. This is why the new fMRI technique is so important. Finally, we can now measure success right away, without waiting 5 or 10 years for the patient to report what's been happening.

An article in The World Journal of Surgery in March 2006, reported that "the success rate of laparoscopic lysis of adhesions remains between 46% and 87%" That's a huge range, isn't it? I think answer varies so much because of the above reasons, and also because the question depends on a number of surgical factors. I strain to understand them.

Citation: Szomstein S, Menzo EL, Simpfendorfer C, Zundel N, Rosenthal RJ. Bariatric Institute, Section of Minimally Invasive Surgery, Cleveland Clinic Florida, 2950 Cleveland Clinic Blvd., Weston, Florida, 33331, USA, szomsts@ccf.org. 2006 Mar 13; Laparoscopic Lysis of Adhesions, World J Surg.

I saw another article that reported similar success rates, (assuming I'm reading it correctly:

http://7thspace.com/headlines/302194/feasibility_of_laparoscopy_for_small_bowel_obstruction.html

The Surgical and Clinical Adhesions Research (SCAR) steering group in the United Kingdom also reports success rates. The numbers they provide are confusing to me. This is a cop out, but I don't feel well enough to try to boil down the information I have in front of me, (it would take a steady 2 hours of intense reading) so I'll merely just refer you to their work. Even if I tried to get up to speed with everything in the article, I don't have the credentials to present it to you. It's quite dense language.

The SCAR group is probably the most prestigious and credentialed group of researchers. The lead author in these studies is usually A.M. Lower or H. Ellis. There have been at least 3 major reports from the SCAR group. The latest one that is in my stack of papers is this one:

A.M. Lower, R.jJ. S. Hawthorn, D. Clark, J.H. Boyd, A.R. Finlayson, A.D. Knight, and A.M. Crowe, (2004) Adhesion-related readmissions following gynaecological laparoscopy or laparotomy in Scotland: an epiemiological study of 24046 patients, Human Reproduction Vol. 19, No. 1 pp. 1877-1885

There are other earlier reports from the SCAR group. The SCAR group is generally credited, especially Ellis, for raising awareness of the problem among doctors.

Individual surgeons are free to report their own experience and they do so. Of these self-reporters, I've seen figures ranging from 75 to 85 percent success rates. Here's one of them:

http://www.centerforendo.com/articles/adhesionsupdate.htm

Ideally, a surgeon worth his/her salt should provide you with information about risks of success and failure. Surgeons are supposed to obtain what is called in legal terms, "informed consent" from their patients prior to operating. I do not feel qualified to provide you with correct information so that you can make "informed consent." But I do know enough to ask pointed questions. In fact, I tell everyone I know who is going to have surgery to ask the surgeon to please explain the risk of adhesions and to please describe what, if any, techniques he/she will be using to try to prevent them from occurring. And then to listen carefully. Perhaps he/she can explain why your surgery has a 87 percent chance of success, while someone else would have a 46 percent.

You've asked a very difficult question, and I don't think I've answered it like you want me to. I'm sorry. But I thought I'd give it my best try. Perhaps someone else can take this information and come back to us with a better response. If there is a simple answer, I don't know what it is. But I've done my best to give it to you. Maybe I'm just too tired to give a confident answer. But really, I think it's just a very complicated question. It's just hard to say. And I'm really, really tired right now. I just spent 2 hours poking around in my files and on the net, and I'm going to stop and call this good. I did my best.

Yours,

Mark in Seattle

http://www.adhesions.org/forums/listcmds.htm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.7/1982 - Release Date: 03/03/09 16:09:00

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Windows Live=99 Contacts: Organize your contact list. Check it out.=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1987 - Release Date: 03/06/09 07:20:00


Enter keywords:
Returns per screen: Require all keywords: